I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member. — Groucho Marx
I am extremely proud to say that I now have a lot in common with Pete Rose. In other words, what Rose is to professional baseball, I now am to GreaseSpotCafe.com – banned for life. The big difference between us, however, it’s my understanding that Mr. Rose hopes to someday be reinstated in pro baseball and then inducted into its Hall of Fame; I, on the other hand, am happier than a pig in mud over being banned by GreaseSpotCafe.com. I mean, looking at the actual source here of what GSC honestly represents and what its all about, I would truly view this as a, Badge of Honor.
GreaseSpot Café is basically a self-proclaimed cult support network website to help accommodate all the supposed “victims” and former members of The Way International (a.k.a. The Way Ministry, The Way, The Way Biblical Research and Teaching Ministry, the ‘Kissing’ Ministry, etc.). And just for the record, I’ve written about both GSC, as well as The Way, on previous postings on this blog. Secondly, I was a faithful member of The Way until that organization started to come apart at the seams, so to speak, in the mid-80s. Lastly, I hooked up and became a member of GSC about 6-7 years ago, mostly to just seek out old friends I had in the Way Ministry, as well as pay my respects to members who had passed away and gone on to be with the Lord.
Among other things, The Way – as well as the majority, I feel, of GSC “regulars” – believe that Jesus Christ is NOT God; unlike most charismatic Christians, Way members Speak in Tongues and Interpret on cue and when asked to do so (much of the time, with a message they had already pre-planned in advance); The Way doesn’t support that the “Cross” is the symbol of Christianity because they believe that Jesus Christ was actually nailed to a tree before he died; Jesus was actually crucified with four malefactors, not just two; and, The Way might be the ONLY Christian entity that supports Abortion via a Biblical scripture allegedly claiming that life begins at “first breath”.
Bottom Line: Most conservative Christians have no qualms about viewing The Way as an off-the-wall religious cult and appropriately so.
Many of the “regulars” who currently participate on the GSC message board forum proclaim they “warn others about wolves in sheep’s clothing”, but that’s extremely one-dimensional to anything else they may be involved with regarding the normal Christian lifestyle. There’s no, “walking circumspectly with the whole armor of God” with any of these folks. Also, for any so-called Christian to proclaim their whole ministry is about, “warning others about wolves in sheep’s clothing” sort of entitles them to a free reign to publicly bad-mouth and trash whoever they may perceive as “wolves” any time their little heart desires (often taking place amongst the bloggers on the GSC forum), which I don’t believe Jesus Christ would ever endorse.
Assuming the GSC regulars are referring to the present Way Ministry as “the wolves in sheep’s clothing” here, The Way is nothing but a mere shell of what it was about 25-40 years ago in its “heyday”. For example, back then, I probably noticed a vehicle with a Way International bumper sticker at least once a month in my regular travels. I can honestly say that it’s been AT LEAST 25 years since I’ve seen a vehicle with a Way bumper sticker on it. I would guess that The Way probably has about 2,000 – if that much – “faithful” worldwide financial contributors, and even back in the 80’s, had a much smaller membership than either the Mormons or the Jehovah Witnesses.
But the thing I find most toxic and insane about the GSC “regulars” and their message board forum is that they’re still whining and bitching about incidents that took place 27-40 years ago, as if they just happened a couple weeks ago. Is this supposed to be somehow, “therapeutic”? It certainly ain’t Biblical. Have you ever known a Divorcee to carry on more than just a couple months because they were still bitter and hostile towards their Ex? Heck, have you even heard of any support groups that still operate for friends and relatives who lost loved ones in the 9/11 tragedy? Personally, I just think that 9/11 and Divorces are a heck of a lot more stressful than learning your church group had a few ministers engaging in fornication and adultery, yet the vast majority of the two former groups seem to have no problems moving on with their lives.
And if that isn’t pathetic enough, these GSC “regulars” will deliberately misspell the names of the former Way leaders they’re publicly trashing to prevent their names from possibly popping up on a Google search. In other words, on former Way president L. Craig Martindale, they’ll refer to him as “lcm”; or on Rev. Chris Geer, they’ll refer to him as “Chris G33r” – so if they were to do a Google search on themselves, GSC references will never pop up.
What an absolute chicken BLEEP thing to do!!!
Why wouldn’t a man or woman of God want to actually confront an individual, face-to-face, that they’ve got an issue with? Instead, they just conduct themselves like BLEEP-holes and snicker behind these peoples’ backs. Forgiveness or possible resolution is just not an option with people like this. I recently posed the question on GSC, how many more decades — or quarter centuries — do you suppose you’ll need to whine and bitch on the GSC forum for some type of “closure” to take place in your personal lives over your Way Ministry experience? Again, no response, which is probably why now, the GSC Moderator is referring to me as a “troll” and a “liar”, and then banning me from posting anymore on its message board.
Can you say, “pity party“?
Another perspective to view the vast majority of “regulars” of the GSC site is that if you assume just for argument sake that an individual was at least 21 when Victor Paul Wierwille retired and turned the presidency of the Way Ministry over to L. Craig Martindale in ’82 (or 32 years ago), they would be 53 right now. Personally, I think the vast majority of GSC “regular” bloggers are a wee bit older than that. Realistically speaking, the vast majority of GSC bloggers will only have about two decades (20 years) here on earth to live, if you agree that the mean age of an average American citizen is 70. But if your Judgement Day with God comes two decades from now or in just two hours (there’s no guarantee as to exactly ‘when’ any of us will die and subsequently meet God on Judgement Day), do YOU honestly want to spend your last few hours/months/years/decades like the pathetic individuals of the GSC site? Constantly trashing a guy who’s been dead since ’85, and another guy who’s been terminated from The Way since 2000 and is allegedly living in exile in Toledo, Ohio? Life is just too short and valuable to be bitter and ticked off at some individual(s) who screwed you/me over more than a quarter century ago.
And if you feel “inspired” (or is the more appropriate word here, “possessed”?) to donate a few bucks to GreaseSpotCafe.com, via either your credit card or debit card, the cowardly shysters running that fraudulent website will be more than willing to siphon your hard-earned money. They actually have a spot on that forum soliciting contributions so they may warn everybody about “the wolves in sheep’s clothing”. Are they BLEEPIN kidding me? Personally, I’d feel more “inspired” contributing my money to a website warning everybody about the crooks and shysters — ESPECIALLY from a Biblical perspective — currently running GreaseSpotCafe.com . I can only assume that this is how the “regulars” of the GSC site suffice their Biblical requirement of “Tithing” in their extremely twisted and demented minds.
Specifically, the bone of contention I’ve got with GSC (or it has with me) is about a 27 year old unverified and unauthorized document called, The Passing of a Patriarch, authored by Rev. Chris Geer, which chronicles the last few days of the life of Way founding president Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille in ’85.
To give you a little bit better perspective of what exactly the author intended this document to be, here’s how Rev. Geer starts off the thing:
[… I set pen to paper to tell the last days of the life of Dr. Victor Paul Wierwille. After having spent so many days together with him over the course of the years that I was his aide, companion and confidant it was greatly significant to me that I was allowed to spend the last twenty-two days of his life with him…
…What I have attempted to record are the basic activities of his last days and pertinent portions of the many hours of conversations that we had during that space of time. I have included relevant background to add clarity and continuity. I have not left out parts to intentionally slight anyone or diminish the importance of the time that they were blessed to spend with Dr. Wierwille during his last days. Nothing could be farther from my heart or mind.
I am not a writer, but I trust that you will find the text spiritually invigorating. I present it for your consideration. It is my firm believing that God will give understanding to the far from adequate job that I am capable of doing to communicate the contents of the last days of Dr. Wierwille’s life which I have called The Passing of a Patriarch…]
Now even though GSC regulars often publicly trash Rev. Geer, and the late Dr. Wierwille as “scumbags”, “dirtballs”, or worse, they still very much view PoP as a highly sacred document parallel to the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, or, “the unofficial fifth Gospel of the Bible”. So using that exact same logic, the GSC “regulars” probably also view Chris Geer as the “unofficial 13th Apostle“, or something stupid like that.
For example, why the heck would GSC give this document a link (or any credibility whatsoever) on its website – which in and of itself, is a sign of reverence, respect and awe – while the Way Ministry, on the other hand, refuses to post it on its official website? So while the GSC website is publicly making available this unverified and uncorroborated PoP document and putting it on a proverbial pedestal for all its patrons to study and admire, isn’t it in essence perpetuating a Lie? Gee, until GSC can substantiate some type of truth out of it or prove that Dr. Wierwille actually AUTHORIZED his supposed final conversations with Rev. Geer to be publicly disseminated like that, I believe it is. While I was corresponding about a month ago with the GSC moderator, calling themselves, Modgellan, he/she stated that PoP was available on a GSC link, in its verbatim entirety, because it was distributed to the Way Corps (The Way’s leadership training program) and it was a “historical” perspective.
A historical perspective of what???? To compare the crucifixion of Jesus Christ to the last days of Victor Paul Wierwille – even jokingly – is both Blasphemy and Idolatry in its purest form. One big difference between the two – Jesus never threw anybody under the proverbial bus en route to his crucifixion. Heck, Jesus even prayed and forgave his tormentors and accusers throughout that whole experience – assuming the statements made in the PoP document were true, Dr. Wierwille was about 180 degrees opposite from Jesus on that front. And, oh by the way, even though GSC has no qualms about offering the “highly sacred” PoP as a link on its website, it DOES NOT offer the Holy Bible, i.e. BibleGateway.com, as a link to study the scriptures on this particular subject.
To give you an idea of the typical mindset from a GSC “regular”, let’s scrutinize this individual calling themselves, Ham:
Joined: 09-February 03
Gender: Male
So to round off Ham’s tenure of posting comments on the GSC forum to 11 years, he averages more than 105 posted comments per month on that website during that entire span of time. Sounds to me like something a lot more than just a “passive interest” on this particular forum – even if you were to assume Ham left the Way Ministry a couple days before becoming a member of the GSC forum. Can you say, “obsessed”?
Now let’s look at one of Ham’s comments, which I assume was directed at Yours Truly. I had asked on earlier comments and different Threads as to what exactly was the “relevancy” of the PoP document and, more specifically, how exactly does this thing “edify” someone as a Christian or do anything to “enhance my Eternal Salvation with God”? Ham then initiated his own Thread on GSC and titled it, The Relevance of passing of a patriarch even thirty years after the fact. This was actually one-of-five comments that Ham posted on just this particular Thread on 12-8-13. My original thought for this thread was from how another poster referenced this particular piece of “history” as not being relevant today. In other words, what good does knowing that the old ministry was being run by delusional, screaming, gun-toting psychopaths? Things did not improve after chrissy poo exited the scene, either.
I know the general attitude: leave me alone, this is not “edifying”.
What difference does it all make in regards to my eternal security (ahem, eternal salvation) and all..
I don’t see how “truth” always has to be “edifying”.
I wonder if *mr* geero still packs heat when he goes to put on a public meeting..
These just might be the kinds of things I would want to know before attending his church..
So let me see if I’ve got this straight – Ham obviously has little-to-no respect for Rev. Chris Geer, HOWEVER, this individual throws out the statement here: I don’t see how “truth” always has to be “edifying”. In Ham’s defense, the GSC moderator as well as many of that forum’s “regulars”, blatantly refer to the whole PoP document as, “the truth”.
My argument here is, if we’re referring to an unverified, unauthorized, and uncorroborated document like PoP, wouldn’t it AT THE VERY LEAST have to originate from a trusted and reliable source of integrity in order for it to be considered even remotely “true”? Even when Rev. Geer himself alluded to his own ambitions with the Way Ministry in this very same PoP document?
Here’s an excerpt from the PoP document. “Don” is referring to Donnie Wierwille, a Way Board of Trustee member and the oldest son of Way founder Victor Paul Wierwille. “Doctor” is another reference to Victor Paul Wierwille:
[…Don also said something to me that at the time troubled me, but never so much as after Doctor had started talking to me about the state of affairs of the Ministry and what he felt were the causes. He said (regarding my leaving the employ of the Ministry), “You are a great administrator and we don’t want to lose you.” At the time I had never considered myself as an administrator; I never had really considered what one was. I wanted to be a believer, a leader, a spiritual man, but had given no thought to being an administrator. It bothered me at the time that what I wanted to be recognized for had not even been mentioned and that what I had never considered being was what I was considered as. It did send me to the Word looking over the following weeks and months. As Doctor had spoken to me I saw the mold that I had been slated for…]
Wow, that sure sounds to me like Rev. Geer wasn’t exactly a “happy camper” on just being relegated in the Way Ministry as a mere “administrator” (Heaven forbid!). One of the many terms that some of the GSC regulars used in reference to the whole presentation of the PoP document was that it was nothing more than a “power grab” on Geer’s part for himself to take over, control, and run the Way Ministry. I would agree with that last statement 110 percent.
It was as if the whole purpose behind the PoP situation was to plant a seed in the hearts and minds of Way believers to wonder: If Victor Paul Wierwille could’ve anointed his successor as Way president just a week or so before his death, would he have still chosen L. Craig Martindale for that job, OR, preferred his longtime confidant, Chris Geer? Hmmmm.
So getting back to my original point as to how an uncorroborated document like PoP from an extremely questionable source like Rev. Geer could possibly be deemed as “TRUTH”, is sort of like saying that convicted fraud felon Bernie Madoff is a great man of integrity. In other words, that simply doesn’t pass the sniff test.
To give you an idea on just how Rev. Geer in this PoP document rambles on in a rather superfluous and irrelevant manner, here’s an excerpt of what exactly I’m referring to:
I helped Dr. Wierwille to undress, so that he could rest, as I had done so many times before. We put his clothes away neatly and as I was helping him out of his socks and shoes he started talking about how blessed he was to have me help him again. What followed, however, was less expected. It was not his general custom to start talking about deep things right off the bat. Usually when he had something to talk about with me it would have come up later on in a conversation or visit but not this time…]
Now the GSC moderator, Modgellan, told me in an email that this particular passage was in reference to caretaker tending to an elderly and sickly patient. Sure sounds a wee bit bizarre to me, sort of like the gay version of a Harlequin Romance or something like that. But as the old cliché goes, some things are just better left unsaid – and I think this is one of those things.
Moving right along, here’s the only reference that Rev. Geer gives to validate the PoP document:
[…Points for Consideration QUESTION: Did Dr. Wierwille really say all the things that you say he said?
ANSWER: Why else would Dr. Wierwille have journeyed all the way to Scotland? He was very weak before he left. He had already delivered his farewell message to the Household at International Headquarters. He had told his earthly family at Headquarters that he was going to die very soon. There is no logical reason for a dying man to journey like he did, except to accomplish some very specific goal in the last days of his life…]
Hypothetically speaking, let’s say that Chris Geer challenged Dr. Wierwille’s widow in Court for the family car using this same argument – Rev. Geer would literally be laughed out of Court for trying to pull a stunt like this. Why didn’t Dr. Wierwille ever try to make it “official” by having this as part of his Last Will and Testament? Why didn’t Dr. Wierwille, at least, try to do a video testimony?
Geer was basically known in Way Ministry circles as Dr. Wierwille’s chauffeur/bodyguard – not to mention, a close friend and confidant — who was desperately seeking his proverbial “15 Minutes of Fame”. Not too much different than comedienne Roseanne Barr’s third husband, bodyguard Ben Thomas. Can you say, “opportunist”?
Shame on both the Way Board of Trustees at that time, as well as the Wierwille family, for not challenging Geer to, at least, take a Polygraph (Lie Detector) test on his statements concerning PoP. Granted, Lie Detectors are inadmissible in Court because they’re not 100 percent reliable – but I think they would’ve been much better off being at least 99.9 percent correct on this issue as opposed to ZERO percent, like they wound up. Geer, according to some Internet reports, would wind up being terminated from The Way about three years later but it was still more than enough time to basically destroy the Ministry that many of us all knew and loved.
Here’s another interesting tidbit Rev. Geer stated in PoP allegedly quoting Dr. Wierwille:
[…You see, son, I have two earthly sons. Today I cannot really talk to either one of them. J.P. is a nice guy, but spiritually he just doesn’t have it; he’s weak.
“The hardest to face, though, is Donnie. Despite everything that I have tried, he is not a spiritual man. I knew years ago that he had tremendous administrative abilities. That I have never questioned. I had really thought that if he was with us he would grow and make a commitment spiritually, but he hasn’t. He is governed by facts, sense knowledge, and has basically neglected the spirit of God in his life. Perhaps he has done more to harm this Ministry than any other single man in its entire history…]
Now here’s where I’ve got some serious reservations on whether or not Dr. Wierwille actually AUTHORIZED Chris Geer to publicly disseminate this PoP message the way he did. Could Dr. Wierwille have made these statements? Probably, but don’t most parents get upset with their kids from time-to-time, and then wind up talking to a close friend or relative for some helpful advice or just to vent? But that, sure as heck, doesn’t automatically give the friend or relative Green Light Permission to publicly trash that person’s kids in the event of their death. In addition to trashing his own two sons, Dr. Wierwille – according to Chris Geer’s PoP document – also had some serious reservations about then-Way president L. Craig Martindale, then-Way Board of Trustee member Howard Allen, and about a half dozen other Way employees, some of whom Wierwille allegedly described as, “spiritually dishonest”.
[…QUESTION: Did you take the historical occurrences of the last days of Dr. Wierwille’s life and weave into them your own tale?
ANSWER: I wish that I had. The historical occurrences are as accurate as I can recall them. So are the conversations. There is probably no other man living who knows the ramifications of what he said to me better than I do. I would like nothing better than to be able to admit to myself (and to you, too) that it was all a fabrication. It is not. The historical evidence as well as the Biblical precedents do not stand in favour of it being a fabrication.
QUESTION: Why did you write it all out?
ANSWER: I wrote by no means all of it out. What is contained here is no more than 60 per cent, if it is that much, of the conversations that Dr. Wierwille and I had during those twenty-two days, as well as relevant conversations and background information from the years involved. As I stated, much was left out entirely. Some is not pertinent; the rest is only of value as decisions are made in the days to come. There are things that will have no meaning until men make up their minds where they stand with God and His Word…]
$64,000 Question: What even remote “Biblical precedents” are contained in this PoP document? If there was anything “holy” or “sacred” mentioned in this document, I obviously missed it.
Secondly, what about the “other” 40 percent of things Dr. Wierwille allegedly told Rev. Geer? Specifically, anything mentioned about fornication in the Way Ministry? On the GSC forum, the moderator, Modgellan is calling me out as being a “liar”, YET, there seems to be at least one other regular on its forum claiming that Dr. Wierwille actually drugged and raped women – any documentation (or PROOF) on that little tidbit? There’s nothing quite like kicking a guy more than a quarter century AFTER HE DIED, I always say.
I’m basically being “Banned” from GSC for allegedly lying about the UNVERIFIED PoP document about a year-and-a-half ago here on, One Bad Decision Away from Homelessness, regarding what I heard about the rampant fornication problem in The Way back in the 70’s and 80’s, YET, it has no qualms about allowing other “regulars” to trash the late Dr. Wierwille concerning his supposed “fornication issues”. It further has no qualms about making the two sexual-related lawsuits against The Way from about 15 years ago, caused by former Way president L. Craig Martindale, as available links on GSC. Can you say, “
Lastly, how is lying about a “Lie” such a heinous crime? How many American parents have already told their kids in these past two months that Santa Claus will come down their chimney on Christmas morning? Is that true, OR, a “LIE”? Why aren’t the supposed “great men and women of God” on GSC making a Federal case out of that Lie???
See, that’s why when people ask me, which is a better group to be associated with: the Way Ministry, or GreaseSpotCafe.com, I would respond by saying, that’s sort of like asking which group is better between al-Qaeda or the Muslim Brotherhood? Or perhaps which smells worse: cow manure or horse manure? Both The Way, as well as GSC, equally suck even though they have somewhat different agendas and I think they both hurt a heck of a lot more people than they assume they help.
My brethren, let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgment. — James 3:1
I sort of feel what makes GSC regulars riled up more than anything else is that the late Way founder and president Victor Paul Wierwille managed to pass onto death without first paying for his sins here on earth. But even if a fraction of the accusations against this man were true, I honestly believe that God DID NOT give Dr. Wierwille a “free pass” on Judgment Day based on just the aforementioned Bible verse. By that scripture in the book of James, I would assume that God judges Ministers — or Teachers of the Word of God — by a much higher standard than anyone else. “The Doctor” may have managed to fool a couple thousand followers of The Way regarding his true modus operandi, he DEFINITELY won’t pull that same garbage when dealing with God.
The second thing I think makes GSC “regulars” blood boil is how God could still actually “Forgive” people like L. Craig Martindale and Chris Geer of their past sins. But if God could possibly forgive Paul the Apostle (a former murderer of Christians) and King David (both an adulterer and murderer), then He’s capable of forgiving anybody of any possible sin. And there’s no doubt in my mind whatsoever that both Paul the Apostle and King David are residents of Heaven right now. God’s ability to forgive people of their sins is absolutely INCOMPREHENSIBLE, regardless on whether or not you or I feel that person is “worthy” enough to ever be forgiven. The big question about the eternal futures on Martindale and Geer – Are these guys humble enough to repent of their sins and then ask God for forgiveness? I guess the answer to that question would be solely between them and God.
About a dozen or so “splinter” church groups deriving from the Way Ministry have come and gone (mostly gone) since Rev. Geer made his presentation of, The Passing of a Patriarch in ’86. I think the lesson to be learned here — at least from my perspective — a church that puts all its faith, hope, and trust in men and women will fail every single time. If you don’t always have your constant focus and attention on Jesus Christ, or at least get back on track if and when things start going bad, your church is inevitably doomed. Christians need to constantly ask themselves the question, Where are our REAL priorities in life: with Jesus or men (or women)?
So GSC may have pulled the plug on me from its website, but I can still vent and rant here on, One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness. Praise God for small miracles, I suppose. Just sayin
One Bad Decision Away From Homelessness 